Retirement Planner / FIRE Sheet - Request for Feedback

We’re hoping to have it live in a few weeks, @pcmccollum. I think this tool will evolve over time as we learn more from the needs and expertise in this community… so the initial release will be a roughed-in starting point.

A section with Projections based on What-ifs would be helpful

Hi@jonorlin,randy

The retirement planner should encompass present and future net assets/liabilities i.e., it should include and recognise current and future assets, and current and future liabilities and annual contributions to grow it. The annual contribution will be a regular employer and personal contribution that one has no access to until preservation/retirement age.

The net worth and snapshot sheet recognise total assets less current liabilities. The net worth sheet should be leveraged to build a retirement planner as it summarises all the assets and liabilities.

For example, Family home, all investment properties, shares, cash, credit cards, Home and investments mortgage etc make up my net worth.

In building the FIRE, extensive customization should be allow, such

  • Age, single or couple,

  • Dedicated custom tax and inflation table.

-Annual contribution, Annual Investment return, Annual Retirement expenses, and custom Withdrawal rate at retirement etc.

-Not sure of the US, in AU, withdrawal rate is based on age.

Uncertainty (If scenario) built in

-Investment return uncertainty

  • increase/Decline in value of investment such as real estate etc

  • Annual savings amount uncertainty

-Annual savings increases uncertainty

-Annual Withdrawal amount uncertainty

I currently use generic FIRE I got from the internet and insert into Tiller. I input age, yearly contribution and my Tiller net worth (total assets-total liabilities) to project future retirement balance.

Is unlikely you will build FIRE that satisfies everyone. Above is just an idea.

Attached is the sheet… you might learn something from it.
Retirement

The income side needs to allow for various income sources such as pension, social security, annuities, as well as dividend and interest income. These are all handled differently.

Other retirement “planners” I have used skip the dividend and interest side of the equation and just assume you will use the 4% rules or a variation of that.

Thanks @blarue001
Yes, we are planning a section that let’s you test out different projections. You will be able to turn them on and off.

Thanks @robandcindy2,
Yes, we will have that feature. In the current Cash Flow Forecast sheet, you can enter any future income or expense stream along with a time period and an individual growth rate.

This information will roll over to the new Retirement sheet.

Check out:

jon

Thanks for sharing your sheet @adekunledauda
Unfortunately, it says i need to request access. Can you switch to a read only access link?

You have a lot of good points in your comments.

As you say, it is “unlikely you will build FIRE that satisfies everyone.” That’s what we are trying to figure out and why all these comments are helpful.

Since everyone has a unique financial position and there are so many financial unknowns about the future, we are trying to build something that can be a starting point for as many people as possible while allowing lots of individual customization. Just the tax part alone can get very complicated very fast.

Jon

You should be able to access it now.

@adekunledauda,
Yes, i can see it now. Thanks.
It looks very extensive!

  1. Investment Growth Rate - I would prefer multiple growth rate scenarios at the same time.
  2. Taxes - Either way would be fine, but if there was an annual manual rate, it would be good to have a way to default that to a global rate.
  3. Other features - Monte Carlo projections or facilitate integration with other MC tools. This is a good example (https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/financial-goals)

Best,

Eric

2 Likes

Interesting, @blarue001… I totally agree that running scenarios is a core use of this tool. Our thought was that the scenarios could be configured & run by checking/unchecking life events in the Active column.

Where can I find the Fire sheet? Or is it just the cash flow one?

Thanks!

If you are going to add RMD for IRA withdrawals you may consider the ability to assess Roth Conversions. If you don’t mind the added complexity you may consider including RMD for both personal IRA’s and Inherited IRA’s since the withdrawal rates are completely different

Hi @DL19,
We are still developing the FIRE sheet. It’s not published yet.
Our plan is the FIRE sheet will work with the existing Cash Flow sheet.

Jon,

  1. You must have drawn the short straw here. Good luck.
  2. The first item you mentioned was investment growth rate. I would like to be able to associate a growth rate with every investment asset that I have. So, if I have three accounts and each account has two positions, I would like to have six different rates that I can use, one for each position. Of course there are practical limitations here. I might suggest six, and maybe no more than ten. I adopt a lazy portfolio so I do not have many positions. I just moved from three to four.
  3. The second item you mentioned was taxes. I know all about taxes, right? You guys need to make the call here. Taxes bring lots of complexity but honestly any worthy tool needs to address income taxes, and that means both federal and state.
  4. Someone mentioned RMD’s. You need to think about the presentation here. In my mind, RMD’s and other IRA transactions are only tax issues. Otherwise, they are no different than moving money from your savings account and your checking account. Obviously, you would not be calculating the RMD, only providing a space for the user to enter an amount.
  5. You are already providing the ability to enter Social Security. The big question for the user is what numbers to use. That is on the user, not Tiller.
  6. You need to consider withdrawal strategies. The three I see are based on spending needs, maximum spending, and fixed percentage withdrawals.
  7. Someone mentioned Portfolio Visualizer. Very sophisticated, all of which I love. They have lots of great tools there but I suspect most of it is beyond the scope of your project.
  8. What is the new projected rollout date?
  9. Finally, I save the best for last. I have mentioned NewRetirement.com many times on this community but have never received much traction. I am sure Tiller has been listening and has looked at their product. If not, go there right now. This is what your are trying to replicate. I like and use their product. No harm in looking at their tool for ideas, presentation, etc. (Enough said…this is where that little man on my shoulder tells me to shut up and I actually listen to him.)

Cheers,

Blake

Thanks @Blake for your helpful feedback and suggestions. You organized some of the issues very clearly.

We don’t have a rollout date yet. I can’t even give you an estimate. I think we were close, but we are trying our best to deal with the complexities.

One concept we are considering is to allow you to put in whatever adjustments you want based on year, amount and growth rate. So each user could make it as complex or simple as they wanted.

Jon

Great feedback, @Blake.

There are some parts of what you’re requesting that we will be able to implement and some parts that are well beyond the scope of our project.

Within a spreadsheet, there are some significant performance, UX and special-case constraints that do not exist within dedicated retirement planning tools. Tax planning & consequences, in particular, are an area where the scenarios are just far too complex for us to keep pace, provide accurate guidance, and not confuse template users. Most spreadsheet-based solutions address this by relying on the spreadsheet user to input “after tax” growth rates, effectively best-effort personalized assumptions provided by each user.

I realize these compromises may be disappointing to users hoping for an end-all-be-all solution to retirement planning in a spreadsheet. Our hope is that this is a first step— we currently don’t have a tool or workflow to address these needs— and that this community can improve & build on the foundation of this simplified first release.

I am well aware of the constraints. You do the best you can with what you have. It is better than nothing. Are you guys going to charge extra for this? Cheers.

These templates will be free just like the rest of the Tiller Money Labs templates.

@randy

What is this then?